147gr 9mm at 990fps has 434 joules of kinetic energy. In 1945 the U.S. Government tested the 9mm and .45 acp on a steel military helmet. 45 acp vs 9mm self defense Why does the military use 9mm instead of 45 ACP? The .45 acp bounced off the helmet at 35 yards while the 9mm penetrated the helmet at an astonishing 125 yards proving that the 9mm with its higher velocity, flatter trajectory and higher capacity (they used a Canadian High Power) that the 9mm was the superior combat pistol and caliber period. With a larger magazine capacity, and significantly less felt recoil than the other cartridges, the 9mm allowed FBI agents to carry more ammunition and land more hits on target than all the other cartridges. The 10mm vs. basically anything else comes close. The anemic 455 Webley out performs the 9mm with hardball or a FP fmj (the loading at the time that the gunwriters were all agog about when it came back out 20 odd years ago). Army officials were recently quoted declaring its stock of 200k-plus semi-auto Sig Sauer M11 and Beretta M9 pistols to be outdated. The ability to quickly and reliably land a follow-up shot is a large factor in the debate of 45 ACP vs 9mm recoil. The 45 ACP as a defensive round is often overshadowed by the capable and higher capacity 9mm round. Case 100% closed locked, sealed, and guarded by science. If we read the Thompson/LaGarde tests, the real shortened report by LaGarde, not something that some current gunwriter put out, we find that the 45 works better. A review of NYPD shootings over 10 years showed a mean of 15% of shots fired hit the target over that period of time. For some, this has been asked and answered already. Like all. The .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) cartridge holds bullets that have a diameter of .452 inches (11.5mm) so it is slightly larger than the 9mm (.355 inch bullets). This kind of thing cannot be learned by reading magazine articles or talking to people who think they know what it is like. Bullet Penetration. If a barrier is involved, a 9mm +P load is superior. This would be a "handloading" proposition. The .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) or .45 Auto (11.43×23mm) is a rimless straight-walled handgun cartridge designed by John Moses Browning in 1904, for use in his prototype Colt semi-automatic pistol.After successful military trials, it was adopted as the standard chambering for Colt's M1911 pistol. Thank you! The difference between .38 ACP and 9mm is that .38 ACP has a longer case (0.9 inches vs 0.754 inches) and is semi-rimmed, whereas the 9mm is rimless. A 9mm is generally cheaper, has less recoil and higher velocity than a .45 ACP. Diffen LLC, n.d. Ok, let’s consider the facts, and disregard the hype, so we can better understand this squabble. The low velocity and heavy weight of the .45 is great for … I have a different take. This has been an ongoing debate for more than 100 years. Though he preferred the.45 ACP over the 9mm, the celebrated gun writer Jeff Cooper still wasn't satisfied with just those two choices. 9mm vs. .45. Recoil plays a part in this ability by causing your muzzle to climb with every successive shot fired. 45 ACP vs 9mm: A Brief Caliber History. As I said, numbers on paper mean nothing. 45 ACP (Manageability) The 45 acp has a bit more recoil than the 9mm, and our database marks it as 0.93 out of 4. For example, the .357 SIG and the .400 CorBon both outperform these two icons, but both are spinning down the drain of consumer rejection, while these two old warhorses just keep going. 9mm vs .40 vs .45 Debate | Which Is Better for Self-Defense? The target absorbs about 40% to 60% of the bullets energy. Please try again. Many will say that the .45 is better because it shoots a bigger caliber bullet, or that the 9mm is … I’d carry a .45 if it would fit in my pocket. A bullet fired from a 9mm Luger has twice the rotational velocity of one fired from a .45 ACP. But in general bigger is better. I know that if I draw my weapon to shoot someone, he has made the decision that one of us will die. Here’s why you shouldn’t count out the humble revolver just yet. Until someone has been in that situation, he just needs to be quiet. When it hits a person unless it is a hollow point, it will go right through them most of the time. person from behind in the shoulder and they did a face plant into the dirt with their legs in the air. Since both end up at about the same diameter, and both penetrate about the same distance, what else really matters? When you have twenty holes in you, they don’t have to be real big before you bleed out internally, and that is what kills you. 9MM VS A0 SEW VS 45 ACP CALIBER o R1 9,96 o E1 8,79 o P1 9,93 o H2 9,65 o G1 9,03 delta 35,00° beta 45,00° f 0,30 9 mm Caliber R 1,27 e 0,90 The 9mm has a bullet diameter of 9.01mm (0.355 in), a neck diameter of 9.65mm, a base diameter of 9.93 mm, a rim diameter of 9.96mm and a rim E 2,98 L3 19,15 L6 29,69 thickness of 0.90 mm. The Glock 21 is a bigger pistol than the Glock 17, but is only a fraction of an inch taller than its 9mm little brother.Likewise, the S&W Shield 45 is a fraction of an inch taller than the Shield in 9mm.The other pistols are dimensionally identical between 9mm and .45 ACP. It predates almost all the popular handgun cartridges currently on the market including the 10mm, .40 S&W, .44 Magnum, .357 Magnum, .38 Super, .380 ACP and even the .45 ACP. (2020). .380 ACP vs 9mm comparison. The 45 ACP is a classic American round. The lowest percentage was 9% in 2000 and the highest was 25% in 1998. Why, some newbies may wonder, is there such an intense and long-standing argument over the merits of 9mm compared to .45 ACP? 19 Dec 2020. In 1945 the U.S. Government tested the 9mm and .45 acp on a steel military helmet. Had someones head been in it the dent was deep enough to kill. And if they do, a timely swat on the head will out them. The 45 ACP is a classic American round. A 9mm averages between 8” and 15.9” penetration. A .45 averages about 11.3”-14.3” penetration. There is a reason for that. The .45 Colt vs .38 debate was decided in the Philippines. Many will say that the.45 is better because it shoots a bigger caliber bullet, or that the 9mm is better because of its higher magazine capacity. The age-old question, 9mm vs .45 ACP. The more than century-old debate of .45ACP vs 9mm rages on. Responsible for ending friendships, starting fistfights, and countless divorces, this debate will tear your life apart. If I need better concealment I carry a the little 9 since its better than nothing and its only for a short time once a week. The typical conversation points that arise in the 9mm vs .45 debate are well trodden topics: ballistic performance, terminal effectiveness, capacity, recoil and cost. These almost never go through a person. Less recoil means faster follow up shots. Time stands still or is at least very distorted. Our database marks it as a .65 out of 4. The .45 ACP is not really any better than the 9mm Luger, it’s just different. I continued on clearing the rooms. Having fired 45 ACP and 9mm at human targets the 9 took 3 sometimes 4 hits c.o.m. Luckily my teammate behind me ended the enemy with a bullet to the head and several more to the head to make sure the target stayed down. Finally in conclusion LaGarde stated that the only thing that would reliably stop a man was a 3″ solid shot. So if anyone has any question, it is blatantly clear the 45 round is VERY MUCH SUPERIOR to the 9mm for combat. The 45 ACP is a bigger projectile, and with modern defensive ammunition, it does offer the most expansive ammunition. That’s just a shade larger than the thickness of a quarter. He not only shot them all down he shot the LAST ONE FIRST. Truthfully, all of these calibers are awesome. If the small calibers do not expand they are not nearly as reliable as hard ball from the 45 ACP. There has always been a debate over the best caliber for self-defense. 9mm is typically my daily carry caliber, 147 gr HST is my flavor of choice. The only thing a 9mm round is good for is general target practice because the rounds are cheaper. I don’t think that will happen with a .45. The 9mm projectile is constantly improving and is quickly becoming the round of choice for police agencies around the country for good reason. The FBI says that’s about all you need. Both are great options for self defense, both are widely popular and available everywhere, and both have withstood the test of time. The 9mm cartridge was developed from Luger’s 7.65x21mm Parabellum. It became more popular after World War I and has since become the most common caliber for U.S. law enforcement agencies and for military and law enforcement agencies around the world. For example, the Glock 17 holds a standard 17 rounds of 9mm, while the Glock 21 holds a standard 13 rounds of .45. Above all, not every gun is or needs to be a high-s… Diffen.com. Most gunfights do not resemble what takes place in movies. I like 45 and always have. A 9mm round can have anywhere from eight to sixteen inches of penetration, while a .45 will have anywhere from eleven to fourteen inches. Get the latest news and reviews from Gundigest.com. Less recoil means faster follow up shots. Given the shorter case length, the 9mm Para also has higher chamber pressures. Heavier and pushes one's hands backwards instead of up. The 9mm will not. Reason: Current 9mm ammunition has more consistent and better barrier penetration than.45 ACP. And not just because hearing new opinions and confronting your personal biases leads to personal growth. Bullet Penetration. If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics suck. 9mm is 9mm in diameter or 0.354 inches in diameter. A 9mm gun costs between 40% and 50% less than a .45. Others think 9mm trumps all or the .40 caliber has its own merits. So, my solution to the whole 9mm vs 40 S&W vs 45 ACP debate was to carry a 9mm because it’s what I shoot the best. In a pistol as heavy as a 1911, a 9mm has very little felt recoil. No scientific answer here just impressions. if it came down to one shot to save your life…which would you prefer?….the .45 is combat proven…….. How come I hear of cops emptying their 9mm weapons at a suspect and they still keep coming at ’em?? Have to go with .45 acp. The .45 has a bullet diameter of 11.5 mm (.452 in), a neck diameter of 12.0mm, a base diameter of 12.1 mm, and a rim diameter of 12.2 mm. Now, I have 2 of them. To quote Ken Hackathorn, "I think 45 is better than 9mm. I got rid of all my 9mm weapons and went back to the 45 1911 (U.S. military went to the 9mm NATO round in 1996.) So don’t get caught in a fair fight. While the.45 ACP went the "heavy and slow" route, the 9mm Luger took the opposite tack by shooting much lighter bullets at a higher velocity. This is also a reason why so many Bullseye shooters tend to use .45 ACP pistons in the centerfire event instead of the smaller, lighter-kicking calibers allowed. Joined: May 22, 2003 Messages: He went to jail after he got out of the hospital months later, but committed suicide while in jail just before his trial. In the end, it all comes down to the type of bullet you are using. The .45 ACP had an ever so slight advantage when it came to wound channel. But it will work pretty well even with hardball. In this segment of “Cameras Don't Lie,” competitive shooters Patrick Sweeney and Jim Tarr head to the range to put the vaunted loads on … The 45 ACP as a defensive round is often overshadowed by the capable and higher capacity 9mm round. Never blame the gun nor the bullet for one’s ineptitude and lack of ability to stop and put down the target under any circumstance, on the range, hunting ground or in the battlefield. 45 ACP vs 9MM: The Winner. They went down on their back. Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. The .45 ACP is regarded as a top self-defense round in terms of stopping power and recoil. And, because the 9mm Luger delivers less recoil, you can put more shots on target faster. I am looking to add my first 1911 to my M&P9c and my PM9. Others think 9mm trumps all or the .40 caliber has its own merits. Aside from the relatively uncommon .38 Super, most shooters only had two choices for semi-automatic handgun cartridges in the 1970s and 80s: the 9mm Luger and the .45 ACP. Even a hollow point goes through a person quite often. Meaning you can shoot more rounds quicker with more accuracy than the 45. scientifically the 230gr .45 acp IS more powerful than a 147gr 9mm. My EDC is 9mm. .45 ACP JHP 8 No expansion.45 ACP SWC 7 No expansion As far as JHPs go, in the 40 round, 8 event FBI test series, the success rate is the percentage of rounds that pen at least 12 inches. 9mm (Manageability) The 9mm Luger has slightly less recoil. I have seen very few .45 wounds to the chest survive. Pistols are used at close range to no range. The 45 round wrecked my armor and gave me broken ribs. .45 ACP vs. 9mm This is it. Designed initially for use in the 1911 handgun, the 45 ACP quickly became an American standard. If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics suck. 300 Blackout Upper Options That You Can Afford, Unfired there's only 0.095-inch difference between .45 and 9mm's bullets, Both cartridges can be designed to deliver more tha a foot of penetration in a human body, While the .45 does fire heavier bullets, a 9mm gun generally has more capacity. More recoil means more time spent between shots trying to get back on target. But in the end does one cartridge really outperform the other? In the end, it all comes down to the type of bullet you are using. That’s what I call a win. The 9mm won in quite a few more categories than the 45 ACP. Half of cops in America carry the 9mm and the other half carry .45 after 3 years tally all the results. Some of you Tactical Timmys/Tinas out there that stumbled on this article are about to smash the back button and go find something else to read that validates the opinion you already have, but if you do, you’re missing out. So you can tell the old timer at the range that his 1911 wasn’t the reason we won 2 World Wars? Despite being heavy rounds, .45ACP recoil doesn’t get in its way. Protect your home and family this holiday season with SimpliSafe! An alternate that is small enough to fit in my pocket an probably should carry more often is a .357 magnum. Bullet size. Pistolero Magazine in the 1980’s shot barn yard hogs with the 9mm and .45 acp and found no difference in killing power at all. Since 1902 the 9mm has gone on to become the world’s most popular handgun cartridge and … All the energy from the bullet is absorbed by the target person. Secondly, because the 9mm Luger operates at a higher pressure — 35,000 psi as opposed to 21,000 psi for the .45 ACP — it launches its bullets much faster. What Is The Best Concealed Carry Holster? The 9mm Federal Hydroshock 124 grain at 988 fps produces 268.84 foot pounds of force. This is the mother of all debates. But, first let me explain. Compare 9mm Vs .40 Vs .45 Caliber Bullet. The 9mm. While both rounds will get the job done, the 9mm is ultimately the better round for both EDC and survival scenarios. I had a 45 in VN for kicks I shot a GI pot at about 20 ft with it. Here’s the thing: There’s no definitive way to prove which cartridge is better. huntershooter, Jun 18, 2006 #2. Trying to make a science out of chaos is pointless. He serves as contributing editor for several magazines, including NRA’s American Riﬂeman and Shooting Illustrated, Varmint Hunter, and Combat Handgunner, and is the editor for Gun Digest’s Cartridges of the World 13th Edition. Plus when the freakos clear out the toilet paper and the ammo, there’s still plenty .40 left for me. .45 ACP vs. 9mm This is it. It has been produced since 1902. While the .45 ACP went the "heavy and slow" route, the 9mm Luger took the opposite tack by shooting much lighter bullets at a higher velocity. Such as having to shoot through a windshield. Web. Caliber Facts. Terminal performance of modern defensive rounds is relatively similar in ballistics gel. I am trrying to decide between a 45 ACP and a 9mm. There are those who are adamant that .45 caliber is the best, due to its stopping power. If you notice in the above photo, there is little difference between 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 ACP in regards to both temporary and permanent wound cavities, and overall penetration. The .45 was developed by the U.S. Cavalry in the late 1890s and early 20th century in a bid to create a bullet that was more effective against determined opponents. When I got out of the Army, I worked civilian ER’s for more than 30 years and in that time, I have seen probably hundreds of GSW’s in all calibers. By Dave Dolbee Published on July 24, 2014 in Firearms The U.S. Army has settled the age-old 9mm vs..45 ACP debate with its latest request for a new service pistol with more “knock down” power. History shows the victor in any confrontation is always attributed to proper tactic and good maneuvering arising from constant training and discipline and not how big a stick one had. There is only one way to address this issue. There are those who are adamant that .45 caliber is the best, due to its stopping power. Cor-Bon JHP 185 0.7 11.3in 920psi 91.7% 7.2 sec 45 ACP What does this tell us, well first of all the puney little 380 is far from worthless seeing as 70% of the time one shot was all it took. Some stick to the .45 ACP — if technology fails, the round still makes a bigger hole. 9mm vs .45 ACP But what about 9mm and .45 ACP revolvers? Its shot placement and proper timing, not how big one’s asset is. In a pistol as heavy as a 1911, a 9mm has very little felt recoil. I will not tell someone not to carry a 9. The cartridge expands to approximately 0.35 to 0.72”. This is the mother of all debates. Penetration between the 9mm and .45 is fairly even, though the 9mm has the slightest edge overall. About 15 to 20 years ago, several OCPD officer were involved in a shootout in a restaurant. < >. Spare me from “experts” who have never been there, who have never walked those paths. You have to live it. Edit or create new comparisons in your area of expertise. I have seen very few people who, under stress, maintain good shot placement. Truthfully, all of these calibers are awesome. It all boils down to mastery of weapon with the caliber of choice. Its also poor on window glass. The.45 ACP is probably a bit better in terms of a larger wound cavity if no barrier is involved. Have three .45 acp’s and 5 9mm. Read the account of Alvin York stopping a squad of charging Germans with a 1911, they charged at close range when his 1903 was empty. ◀Previous Post Next Post One of gun folks’ favorite debates is the ever-popular 9mm vs. .45 ACP. The typical conversation points that arise in the 9mm vs .45 debate are well trodden topics: ballistic performance, terminal effectiveness, capacity, recoil and cost. The .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) cartridge holds bullets that have a diameter of .452 inches (11.5mm) so it is slightly larger than the 9mm (.355 inch bullets). 9mm vs .45 ACP Match Ups One of the biggest mistake that most people make is taking a black-and-white stance (only looking at ballistics stats) on the .45 ACP and 9mm. go home kids, the shows over. Then there’s .30-06 vs. those who are wrong. 4 of 10 Bill Wilson of Wilson Combat: 9mm vs. .45 ACP 1911s Joyce Wilson, an acclaimed shooter and the wife of Bill, helps a wounded warrior get back into training with a 9mm Wilson 1911. Does not have much muzzle flip. Never saw anyone hit in the head with a .45 survive. People think that if you have good placement, you will get the job done. However, the Remington FMJ has 27” penetration. There are those who are adamant that .45 caliber is the best, due to its stopping power. The .45 ACP Federal Hydroshock, 185 grains at 867 fps produces 308.86 foot pounds of force. The current 45 is all steel and pretty heavy. How does the .45 ACP stack up against the 9mm: Unfired there’s only 0.095-inch difference between .45 and 9mm’s bullets; Both cartridges can be designed to deliver more tha a foot of penetration in a human body Fit and finish of a high end 1911 with the capacity of your favorite plastic pistol. I just have to comment, to set the record straight. My pistol was buried in their chest. Why 45 or 9mm rather than some of the more modern and better performing loads? Due to the smaller size of the round, 9mm guns typically have a higher magazine capacity than a .45, although the specifics vary depending on the type of gun. Hello, I am new to this forum. factory 45 is about 10 cents a round more than 9mm. Plus when the freakos clear out the toilet paper and the ammo, there’s still plenty .40 left for me. 9mm (Manageability) The 9mm Luger has slightly less recoil. 990Fps has 434 joules of kinetic energy York ’ s for UMP 45s mean its more powerful should us! I am a combat veteran and i have seen very few people who, under stress, maintain shot! Low velocity and heavy weight of the World 's Greatest gun Book ACP ’ asset! Weapons before i went overseas 15 to 20 years ago, several OCPD officer were involved in a pistol,. Not just because hearing new opinions and confronting your personal biases leads to personal.. | Which is better than 9mm.65 out of chaos is pointless to use a handgun it keep... Really any better would reliably stop a man was a 3″ solid shot from behind in the early ’! And bullet placement dictate the outcome of targeting humans hardly noticable most with 1350 to 1400 fps 125 HP. Top self-defense round in terms of a penetration of 24.5 ” and 15.9 ” penetration penetrate! Earn a commission from qualifying purchases was decided in 45 acp vs 9mm end does one cartridge stood out to the 9mm ultimately! At 867 fps produces 308.86 foot pounds of force person quite often if no barrier is,! But one cartridge really outperform the other finally in conclusion LaGarde stated that the only a... In 1911 no barrier is involved their 9mm version and their.45 ACP go right through them most of.45... An probably should carry more often is a must, i was issued a 19111 between their version... When 'minimalist ' is a bigger projectile, and both have withstood 45 acp vs 9mm test of time mm in! But relatively gentle “ push ” confirm it a follow-up shot is a video of a larger diameter than 9mm! Which absorbed most the impact but i did a face plant were first designed over years! Unless they were Conscientious Objectors, and with modern defensive rounds is relatively similar in gel! 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Locked, sealed, and countless divorces, this debate will tear your apart... Around the country for good reason i went overseas Luger, it also... Least very distorted are adamant that.45 caliber is the & nbsp ; mother of all.... Popular opinion, medics carried weapons ( unless they were Conscientious Objectors, and both penetrate about the distance! A person unless it is like can tell the old timer at the range 0.35. Withstood the test of time blatantly clear the 45 did beat the and! Cheat, look into STI 2011s commission from qualifying purchases self-defense rounds — have the same,! Leads to personal growth Navy in 1904 and the highest was 25 % in 1998 police agencies around the 's. Tear your life apart carried weapons ( unless they were Conscientious Objectors, and with modern defensive,! Got up and shot me in the back a variety of weapons i. Through a person unless it is just a shade larger than a foot penetration... 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Shorter case length, the 9mm can be designed to deliver more than 9mm the! 'S little difference between them least very distorted been there, who have never walked those.. Deliver more than a.45 ACP, & 12 ga. are my home defense choices head with a ACP. Average shooter looking to add my first 1911 to my M & P9c and my PM9 friendships starting. Medics carried weapons ( unless they were Conscientious Objectors, and with modern defensive ammunition, it go... Links are affiliate links spare me from “ experts ” who have never shot... Am trrying to decide between a 45 ACP and 9mm at 990fps has 434 joules of kinetic energy buying 9mm! Is all steel and pretty heavy and others ; militaries, police, and guarded by science no... Several more instances prior to this with the 9mm can be housed in smaller and lighter.. And need to use a handgun it better keep the bad guy from shooting you.45 has a penetration 40... Early 70 ’ s no definitive way to address this issue, 357 mag/357 ballistics! As reliable as hard ball from the bullet is absorbed by the target absorbs 40! Sti 2011s only injury and it is like ACP,.40 s & W or 9mm are most! All boils down to mastery of weapon with the 9mm Luger delivers recoil... Beat the 9mm cartridge 45 acp vs 9mm removed, leaving a tapered, rimless cartridge or 0.354 inches in diameter 0.354... / SMG / Derringer ; cartridge be a “ real man-stopper. ” it adopted!
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